
 <C> 1994 by GEnie
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On Sunday, October 9th 1994, the Commodore Round Table held its first Internet
Conference! The Featured guest was the Internet RT's own, SKUNKY! He passed
Along quite a bit of valuable information. There will also be a followup
Conference when GEnie anounces its full access. Enjoy reading this transcript.

Specail thanks to Skunky for making this conference possible. And thanks to 
Geos-Tim for room control and back-up buffering.

       -= The.Outlaw =-
 =========================================================================
<GEOS-TIM> Tonight's guest is Skunky, from the Interent RT
           The Room is going into Listen Only mode.  Type /rai if you
           would like to ask a question.  We will call on people in the
           order in which we receive their question request.

<SKUNKY> Hiya everybody!

<GEOS-TIM> Tonight's host is THE.OUTLAW...

<THE.OUTLAW> Welcome to the Commodore RT Skunky! :>
             I see you brought along John :>

<JOHN.FULMER> I am just here to lend moral support to Skunky!

<THE.OUTLAW> Glad to have you! :>
             Well to get the main question out of the way.. What Internet
             services are available to us on GEnie and how do we access/use 
             them?

<SKUNKY> Ok, right now, the only thing directly accessable is e-mail.. With
         that, you can send mail to any user on the Internet, or any other
         connected service, like GEnie, AOL, or CompuServe.

         You can also retreive files, using FTPMAIL and you can gopher, with
         gophermail. Sometimes you can WWW by mail, but it's not very stable
         right now for some reason or another.

<THE.OUTLAW> How do you go about using FTPMAIL or GOPHERMAIL? Are there tools
             of some kind for this?

<SKUNKY> Indirectly, the Internet RT staff will do file searches (through
         archie) and will retrieve files that users request... We also upload
         about 80 newsgroup digests to the internet RT library every week.
         There is a script in the aladdin RT lib for doing ftp mail.. there is
         a cat/top in the Internet RT bb on page 1405 that covers both ftpmail
         and gophermail.

<THE.OUTLAW> That will be helpfull :>

<SKUNKY> There is also a tutorial/beginners guide in the Internet RT library,
         named ACCMAIL.TXT or ACCMAIL2.TXT that covers how to do all of this
         stuff by mail... yeah, I know, the script doesn't do you a bit of
         good. (:

<THE.OUTLAW> hehehe  no it doesn't <g> well in keeping with the email aspect...

<SKUNKY> Well, accually, if you can figure out the scripting language, it will
         show you the format you have to use to get the ftpmail server to talk 
         to you.

         Yes?

<THE.OUTLAW> How does one go about subscribing to Usenet news groups?

<SKUNKY> BTW, cat 2 is the internet RT BB is the "beginner" topic.

<THE.OUTLAW> Great Thanks :>

<SKUNKY> you can't "subscribe" to newsgroups... you can subscribe to
         listservers and mailing lists. Some of which duplicate what is found
         in newsgroups, but not always.... and like I said, we currently upload
         about 80 newsgroups each week to the internet RT library....

<THE.OUTLAW> So there really isn't away to get messages from usenet without
             getting there directly? or visiting your RT?

<SKUNKY> Not from genie. Right.

<THE.OUTLAW> Ok :>

<SKUNKY> You CAN send messages to newsgroups, through a gateway provided by the
         university of texas.

<THE.OUTLAW> Really?  How do you go about this?

<SKUNKY> Yes, pick a newsgroup.

<THE.OUTLAW> comp.sys.cbm

<SKUNKY> ok, to send a message to comp.sys.cbm, you would send a message to
         comp-sys-cbm@cs.utexas.edu

<THE.OUTLAW>Onto the next question... recieving files by mail.. what's
            involved?

<SKUNKY> You send a message to the ftp server, with commands in it..... it
         mails the file back to you in parts...... if it's text, you can read 
         it, if not, it's uuencoded, in which case you would have to stick all
         the parts together, and uudecode it.

<THE.OUTLAW> ok, I know we have the UUencode/decode tool in our Library here
             for the 64

<SKUNKY> good........

<THE.OUTLAW> Commodores don't use ASCII like IBM's do.. Can I assume that we
             have to convert the uuencoded files to true ascii?

<SKUNKY> I remember...  it would make sense for the uudecode program to take 
         care of it by itself. Also keep this in mind.. the "files" are in
         mail, you have to screen capture them. ie, open up a log file and
         "read" the mail........

<THE.OUTLAW> Commodore capture buffers are small in comparison to IBM's etc.
             We'd have to go directly from buffer to disk as the buffer fills.

<SKUNKY> probably.

<THE.OUTLAW> I did try one file once with no success.. I wasn't sure what the
             problem was.. I got one file then the program stopped 

<SKUNKY> Of course, we can ftp the file for you and stick it in the Internet RT
         library.

<THE.OUTLAW> That's good to know. :>

<SKUNKY> yep, options 10 and 11 on page 1405 are your friends. (:

<THE.OUTLAW> Well let me get the big question out of the way so we can move
             into the Internet itself...

             ok.. Full Access on GEnie. any ideas when ?

<SKUNKY> Sometime in the near future.

<THE.OUTLAW> Well that was easy :>

<SKUNKY> Yep. (:

<THE.OUTLAW> How about getting direct access? Is there a list of providers and
             what's the average cost involved? I know it varies greatly.

<SKUNKY> There is a list, it's fairly old tho.
         Costs can range anywhere from free, to around $20 a month, to several
         hundred a month for a single person getting access. A company wanting
         access for themselves can cost $10,000 to start, and several thousand
         a month upkeep.

<THE.OUTLAW> WoW!

<SKUNKY> yeah.

<THE.OUTLAW> About the list, does the Internet RT have it and how do we find
             it. Old that it may be, it's a start :>

<SKUNKY> ok, the "old" list is pdial......... the new list that John just
         uploaded that I haven't looked at is NIC-944.ZIP

<THE.OUTLAW> Will it only be in ZIP form? unfortunatly the UNzip program to
             handle the 2.04g IBM zip hasn't been written for us yet. We can
             handle the 1.xx zip

<SKUNKY> not sure... ah, John says he'll upload the .txt file here if ya'll 
         want it in your lib. (:

<THE.OUTLAW> Yes please John! That would be great! Thanks!
             Well I think we covered all we can do via GEnie...
             Lets move into direct access

<SKUNKY> okie......

<THE.OUTLAW> What's the best way to navigate the Net? or perhaps easiest :>

<SKUNKY> hrm... best isnt always easiest.. I personally prefer to use just a
         plain old basic shell... all text.

<THE.OUTLAW> Howie has a question.. Go ahead Howie :>

<[Howie] H.HERMAN1> Where can I get *FREE* direct access in NYC?   :)
                    My public azccess PANIX gets $29 a month  <sigh>

<SKUNKY> To my knowledge, I don't think you can. Possibly as a student in a
         university.

<[Howie] H.HERMAN1> oh  :(

<SKUNKY> are you in NYC proper, or is NYC a long distance call for you?
         (there are cheaper service providers)

<[Howie] H.HERMAN1> I live in Manhattan, do you know what others charge?

<SKUNKY> I use Netcom, and they charge $19.50 a month... you get a $2
         discount if you pay by credit card.

<[Howie] H.HERMAN1> Will I be able to accress netcom with a local call?  I
                    thought it was in CA

<SKUNKY> netcom has local access numbers in about 30 cities right now..

<[Howie] H.HERMAN1> I'll give them a call then.  Thanks!

<SKUNKY> If you'll hold on a sec, I can find a local number for them... what's 
         your area code?

<[Howie] H.HERMAN1> I'm in 212 area

<SKUNKY> ok... 212 : Blythe, Creative Data, CRL, Escape, Dorsai, Interport, 
         Maestro, MindVox, Mordor, Netcom, New York Net, Panix
 
<[Howie] H.HERMAN1> PANIX is where I am now

<SKUNKY> those are all the service providers  in the 212 area code... netcom
         and CRL charge the same rates.. I don't know anything about the other
         ones.

<[Howie] H.HERMAN1> what I like is that they have many access lines and never a
                    busy signal. Thanks, I'll give them a call.  I grabbed this
                    screen

<SKUNKY> ok, the new york POP for netcom is............ 212 803 6721 data line
         call that with your modem, and log in a guest...... hit return for the
         password, and call with 80 columns, cuz it runs a menu program.

<[Howie] H.HERMAN1> ditto the THANKS

<THE.OUTLAW> Greg has a question..

<[Greg] G.NOGGLE> couple actually,one a decent tutorial for the ksh shell,or an
                  interface for the 64/128 to it,can be cpm,but the text shells
                  for me are very non-intuitive

<SKUNKY> ok.. for unix specific stuff.. check out the UNIX RT on page
         160. they have several tutorials to get you started.. I dont know what
         you mean by the rest of your question....

<[Greg] G.NOGGLE> well as I just said to somebody else,I have the aversion to
                  paying to be lost and confused

<SKUNKY> Greg, several providers have flat fees..

<[Greg] G.NOGGLE> so something along the lines of mosiac would be awesome for
                  the 128,or even a menu driven gopher/veronica untility for 
                  the 128

<SKUNKY> if you DON'T have to luxury, then get the Big Dummy's guide to the
         Internet, and READ IT ALL before you log on.

         Ok, first, mosiac REQUIRES higher resolution graphics than you're
         gonna get on a commie... and you don't need a gopher program for your
         commodore.. it runs on the system that you log onto. All you need is a
         terminal program that can do vt100 emulation.

<[Greg] G.NOGGLE> I know that,but that was an example of something that I would
                  intutive exactually its better than that,but somewhere 
                  between that and just one of the shells would nice

<SKUNKY> Most of the stuff you can do with the internet are started from a
         shell, but are programs that run on the host that you call, gopher is
         one such program.. for instance, we are running a program on GEnie's
         computers to allow us to chat.. portal.com offer both shell and menu
         driven accounts.

         netcom also has a menu system.. which sits on top of the shell, and 
         lets you use your arrow keys to do things... make sense?

<[Greg] G.NOGGLE> okay

<THE.OUTLAW> Doc, has a question.. Go ahead Doc

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> I have a couple of questions as to capability and
                   terminology.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> First off, what is a KSH shell?  And what is its purpose?

<SKUNKY> Ok, KSH is a Korn shell....it is a command interpreter.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Second off what resolution and capability is required to run
                   the Mosaic software?

<SKUNKY> Mosaic runs on a macintosh, or a dos/windows based pc with vga or
         better graphics, tho it doesnt look right until you get svga 
         graphics.. it's also slow on older computers, as it's quite graphics 
         insensive.

         Does that answer your question?

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> No, not exactly, getting back to the KSH command
                   interpreter.  Is this interpreter similar to the prompts you
                   receive from a UNIX system such as during a remote login?

<SKUNKY> yes and no..
         on a unix based system, there are two basic types of shell, and
         variants of each shell.

         KSH is a shell. it gives you a prompt, much like you get from a
         dos based pc.. so, the prompts you get during a telnet or rlogin 
         session to a unix host are supplied by whatever shell you happen to be
         running there.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Where would a KSH shell be encountered, and how is it used?

<SKUNKY> ok, when you connect to a unix based host. you will get a shell, or a 
         menu or something.. if you get a shell, it MIGHT be ksh. it might be
         just plain sh, or csh, or BASH.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> I see, its one of a variety of interface programs available
                   for UNIX machines.

<SKUNKY> right.. all having different things they can do. The csh can be
         programed in C, ksh can be programmed, but not in C. The "shell" on a
         commodore, BTW, is BASIC.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Nifty, getting back to Mosaic.  Its my understanding that
                   this program is a graphical interface for the internet.  
                   Similar in purpose to the gopher and veronica systems.  What
                   capabilities does this software have?

                   I wouldn't call BASIC a shell, since the enhancements that
                   can be added are typically refered to as this on the 
                   Commodore.

<SKUNKY> mosaic is a program used to view WWW pages. WWW is World Wide Web..
         BASIC is your shell. like it or not. tho there are things you can add
         on top of it... sh is the "basic" shell on a UNIX system, and you can
         run ksh, BASH, csh, zsh, tcsh instead of it.

         mosaic can take a WWW page, and display it for you, with imbeded
         graphics, and possibly sound, I'm not sure about that tho..

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Its not really important, I was just warning you that there
                   is actually a classification of program on the Commodore 
                   called a shell, and its not exactly the same as what you're
                   saying.

<SKUNKY> Yes, I know, in unix, the shell is what passes commands along to
         the computer. On a commie, BASIC does that, unless you turn it off, 
         like GEOS does, then GEOS is your shell.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Right, I understand.  On Commodore shell's are typically
                   programs that give you disk access of some sort.  Commodore 
                   BASIC does not include disk commands by itself in its V2.0.
                   On the 128, you do have some limiited disk commands, but not
                   much.  So, there is a group of programs called shells which
                   give you the added capability.

<SKUNKY> Doc, I remember, I will forever know lO"$",8   tho it doesn't quite
         seem right for the " to not be shift 2.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> There are a group of 6 disk commands on the 64, and about 15
                   or so on the 128, but they aren't anything like whats 
                   available for most computers.

<SKUNKY> most of the "disk commands" on unix and dos based machines are really
         programs that run..

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> So you usually add more.  Even on the original demo disk
                   that came with the 1541 there is a DOS SHELL, which allows 
                   you to easily send commands to the drive.

<THE.OUTLAW> Doc, you can run other 'shells', provided the host system has 
             them.

<SKUNKY> yeah, I know, I never used it, took too much time to load it.
         Most UNIX shells provide the same kind of functionality.. there are
         some, like BASH and tcsh, which are more advanced than others.
         But as long as you can get a shell prompt, you can decide what shell
         you want to run.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Well, we degress.  It just a difference in terminology. 
                   Which was my original reason for asking.  For clarification 
                   on the subject.

<SKUNKY> if your host has 6 different shells, you can run any of them.. I
         personally have 3 shells on my system, so the people who use my unix
         system can use any of the 3 shells on here.
         oooooo, I just thought of something. amigaspeak kinda sorta
         here.. there is no such thing as a command line interface in UNIX, you
         ALWAYS have a shell. where with, for example, you could call a c:\>
         prompt a command line interface.

         The shell is what you always go back to, if you start gopher,
         when you quit, you get your shell back....... if you run IRC, when you
         quit, you get your shell back.. on GEnie, when you run the RTC
         program, when you quit, you get your "shell" back, the shell being the
         GEnie menuing system..

<THE.OUTLAW> How do you find out what shells are available to you?

<SKUNKY> On most systems, you can type chsh, meaning change shell, and it will
         list what shells it will let you change your default shell to. others
         systems you have to go looking. and on some systems, you get what they
         want you to have, and that's it, and you don't get to change it.

<THE.OUTLAW> so it all depends on the software the host is running ie, Solaris
             is mine

<SKUNKY> right.. with solaris, you have to go looking.. chsh prompts
         for a shell to change to.

<THE.OUTLAW> Something I'll have to look into myself :>

<SKUNKY> look in the /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin dir's for shells. ok, am I
         making sense yet?

<CMD-DOUG> Just a comment: If you want to get a feel for a Unix-like shell on
           the Commodore, download ACE from our libs. It has things like 
           UUENCODE and UUDECODE built-in, and the DIR command presents file 
           info in much the same way you'll see on Internet.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Well, back to my second question.  I supposed the WWW is the
                   fastest and best way mode to operate in, so as Commodore 
                   users our capability is severly diminished.

<THE.OUTLAW> Thanks Doug :>

<SKUNKY> Personally, I do not use the web at all. I never really like
         the feel of it. Many people like gopher better.. lots of mac users and
         windows users like mosaic, point and click and watch the pretty
         picture show up on the screen.

<THE.OUTLAW> I find Gopher works well and Veronica works within Gopher :>

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Gopher is pretty much a text based interface, right?

<SKUNKY> yes.. gopher is all text. 

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> WIth the Mosaic system you get into the fancy graphics and
                   sounds like they like to show on CBS news (which is 
                   typically all they show as if to represent the entire on-
                   line world as one vast interactive television show or
                   something, but I degress...)

<SKUNKY> right.. and there are just some things you CANT do with the web.. mail
         for example or reading newsgroups  or irc.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> The limiting factors of Mosaic or modem speed, graphics
                   ability, and sound generation capability.  But, it is not 
                   everything yet?

<SKUNKY> it probably never will be "everything" it is just a tool. 

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> It seems like everything is going over to graphical systems.
                   Its a conspiracy to get us to buy more expensive machines.

<SKUNKY> graphical is easier for beginners to learn.. I personally don't like
         Them

<THE.OUTLAW> lynx is a WWW program on my system and text based

<SKUNKY> and I could do without mosaic. it's more trouble to me than it's
         worth...
         right....... lynx can read all of the text off of a WWW page, and will
         let you flow the links on the page to other places.. just like mosaic,          but faster, and cleaner looking.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Very interesting.  Could a version of lynx be done on the
                   Commodore?

<THE.OUTLAW> lynx is run by the host system..  I still have to sift thru the
             help screens to understand how to use it myself

<SKUNKY> Ok, let me get this out..

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> As opposed to the Mosaic program which is ran by the user's
                   system?

<SKUNKY> if you use a shell, you ONLY need a TERMINAL PROGRAM that can do vt100
         or ansi, preferably in 80 columns, but not required.

         right....... mosaic runs on the users computer....... 

<THE.OUTLAW> Commodore can do just about everything on the Internet. The Host
             system will have text based programs for navigating and reading 
             material you find.

             We can't run any graphic type programs.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Because no one programs for us.

<THE.OUTLAW> thats correct. I've only seen graphics for IBM and MAC

<SKUNKY> I don't run anything graphic, and I'm on a UNIX based system at
         home. Have you ever viewed a gif on your computer Doc?

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Yes, I have.

<SKUNKY> How long did it take to get the whole picture on the screen?

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> I typically use GEOGIF to conert GIF pictures into B&W GEOS
                   files for viewing. The lower resolution 320x200's I can use 
                   the Giffy program for the 64.  The GDS program for the 128 
                   handles higher resolutions, but doesn't handle the color as
                   well as the 64 program.

<SKUNKY> Ok, but how long does it take? I remember it taking several minutes
         for a SMALL pic.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Depends on the size and the type of graphic.  Anywhere from
                   15sec to several minutes.

<CMD-DOUG> Depends a lot on the storage system being used. On a RAM based
           system, they can be up pretty quickly.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> GEOGIF is very quick, and typically does things in less than
                   a minute.  The 128 program is also pretty fast. I prefer to
                   view graphics from a RAMLink.  Its better than disk drives.
                   Or I use my hard drive.

<SKUNKY> ok, you just hit the first problem with doing a mosaic program for
         commodore, it's all a matter of speed. It's possible to write a mosaic
         program that would run under GEOS, provided you had the system
         resources. lots of ram, and a fast modem...

<CMD-DOUG> GEOS probably couldn't keep up... it's too interrupt-laden...

<SKUNKY> Actually, if you used a cello type program, it would be possible....
         not nice, but possible. Nothing else would keep up either.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> I think it would probably have to be a custom program.

<THE.OUTLAW> Basically your asking too much from a commodore to run a graphics
             interface for the internet, I think

<CMD-DOUG> What kind of resolution would Mosaic screens be?

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> The thing I'm more afraid of in this line of questioning is
                   that what happens when the time comes that internet is no 
                   longer text anywhere. Then what do we do?

<SKUNKY> Whatever the windows user has his or her resolution set to. 640 480 at          a minimum, 800 600 more likely. Doc, I dont know.

<THE.OUTLAW> good point Doc

<SKUNKY> I won't be a happy person.. but I don't forsee that happening for
         quite a number of years.

<CMD-DOUG> A 128 can only do a little better than 640 x 400 in interlaced
           mode... So that's the true killer.

<SKUNKY> yeah, and you get a wondeful headache really fast too.

<CMD-DOUG> Or wear cheap sunglasses a lot. ;)

<SKUNKY> not really.. all of the graphics on WWW pages are .gif or.jpg files.
         So resolution wouldnt be a problem....... you'd just have a pic with
         crappy resolution on the users screen, or a pic bigger than their 
         screen that they had to scroll through.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Depends on the monitor.  The old IBM 5150 monitors actually
                   look pretty good in interlace, but the Commodore 1084's 
                   aren't too cool.

<SKUNKY> Now, 16 colors wouldn't be pretty.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Couldn't you reduce everything to monochrome.  What do MAC
                   Classic users do?

<SKUNKY> I personally don't like people with pink eyes and orange faces.
         I don't think mosaic will RUN on a mac classic.

<CMD-DOUG> No, and don't forget... we can't handle individual colors per
           pixel...

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> If so then the interface on the 128 could be written in
                   monochrome.  Better than nothing.

<SKUNKY> but yes, whatever viewer used could just make everything black and
         white. Then you get to write a SLIP or PPP protocol stack. (:

<CMD-DOUG> Somebody is working on SLIP, last I knew.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> This actually has been a real complaint of mine.  There are
                   no versions of the new protocols for the Commodore.

<SKUNKY> so write it!

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Software has been the real major drag.  The machines are
                   pretty capable, but the market isn't here to really offer an
                   incentive for really complex program.

                   Most of our programming development has been in PD and
                   shareware, with people doing part time work.  Hard to keep 
                   up with all the professional teams of authors writting the
                   really nasty codes.

<SKUNKY> bedtime in 20 minutes............

<CMD-DOUG> Has GEnie announced how much Inet support is in OUR future on here?

<SKUNKY> No.

<THE.OUTLAW> What reading do you reccomend for new users to get ?

<SKUNKY> In regards to what cam?

<THE.OUTLAW> basic starting off..  how to get around etc.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Have the trial runs of the internet support been started?

<SKUNKY> download the big dummy's guide to the internet and read it.
         I don't understand your question Doc.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> They had been asking for volunteers to try out the extended
                   i-net services, and I did volunteer, but hadn't heard from 
                   them.  So I was curious if anything has been happening?

<THE.OUTLAW> Doc, those anouncements haven't been made

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> I liked Zen and the Art of Internet.  That was a neat one.

<CMD-DOUG> Cam, we're picking up a book written by an ex-cbm'er called 'Simple
           Internet'. I'm waiting on a review copy now, but it came highly 
           recommended. I'm sure we'll see it review in Commodore World,
           probably Issue 5 or 6.

<THE.OUTLAW> Sounds good Doug! :>

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Would have been better if he wasn't an "ex-CBM'er."

<SKUNKY> There are quite a few "beginner" files in the Internet RT library,
         search on beginner to find them.

<THE.OUTLAW> I'll have to get a list of them and post them later, Skunky :>

<SKUNKY> (:

<THE.OUTLAW> Is there also an Phone book or yellow pages for the Internet?

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Actually I think there is a book called The Internet Yellow
                   Pages.

<SKUNKY> There are 2 Internet Yellow Pages.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> So I take it there's been no movement with GEnie on their
                   extended Inet sercvices?

<SKUNKY> Doctor, I cannot comment on that at this time.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Okay.

<THE.OUTLAW> We have about 15 minutes or so left, if you have any questions
             that do not pertain to GEnie and Full access, go ahead and ask 
             them :>

<CMD-DOUG> Heh, well put Cam! ;)

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> I'll have more questions when I can actually use GEnie to
                   access Internet.

                   For right now, what are some good Internet access providers?

<THE.OUTLAW> Perhaps Skunky will consent to another conference when that
             becomes availeble :>

<CMD-DOUG> I understand there is a new Internet standard coming to increase the
           number of 'addresses' available. Any idea when that will be 
           implemented?

<SKUNKY> Doc, depends on your area. (:

         Doug, I don't know..it needs to be soon, but they have to be
         careful what they do with it.

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Are there any national providers which are providing full
                   Inet access?

<SKUNKY> what do you classify "national providers"

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Providers which can be accessed using Tymnet or Sprintnet
                   from a local area.

<SKUNKY> delphi and cris.

<THE.OUTLAW> How about Telenet sites?

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> What is cirs?

<F.KIEFFER> Most of the local providers I've seen offer free Email as well as
            limited other access, and full access for a fee.

<SKUNKY> cam, telenet=sprintnet.

<THE.OUTLAW> IC

<SKUNKY> cris is an internet provider that uses sprintnet. costs can vary
         greatly dependant on where you are.

<F.KIEFFER> sure but check out the bookstores.  New stuff shows up daily. 
            Maybe you can find a provider in the BBS Magazines.

<THE.OUTLAW> Well folks, thanks for coming.. Skunky will be a here a few more
             minutes, then He needs to Go.

<CMD-DOUG> Even some local BBS's are getting in on the Inet offerings... the
           local board I use gives access to the Usenet Newsgroups and Inet 
           Email as part of their $40/year fee. They're also adding telnet and 
           irc for a slight additional charge.

<THE.OUTLAW> Thankyou very much for coming tonight! :>

<GEOS-TIM> Thanks Skunky...a very informative conference

<SKUNKY> wheeeeeeeeee. (:

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Quick question, Skunky.  Where did you get your handle?

<GEOS-TIM> Good question

<SKUNKY> long or short version of the story?

<GEOS-TIM> Long

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Long

<SKUNKY> I have very dark brown hair...almost black, I get my hair cut in a
         flat top, and it's a really really short flat top, so there is a white
         patch of scalp down the center of my head. One of my old roomies came
         in drunk one night, and decided I looked like a little skunky, so he
         started calling me that... the name stuck. (:

<GEOS-TIM> :D

<THE.OUTLAW> hehehe :>

<SKUNKY> Well, it's been fun guys! (:

<GEOS-TIM> Yes, it has

<THE.OUTLAW> Thanks agin for coming Skunky! When GEnie anounces the Full Access
             feature, we'll try to set up another conference then :>

<CMD-DOUG> Thanks, SKUNKY! ;)

<GEOS-TIM> Thanks for coming in Skunky

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Thanks Skunky.

<SKUNKY> (shameless plug warning.........)

<GEOS-TIM> :::::::clapping::::::::

<THE.OUTLAW> hehehe had to do it <g>

<SKUNKY> Feel free to drop by any of the Internet help desks...... we have them
         three nights a week.......

<GEOS-TIM> will do

<THE.OUTLAW> when and where?

<CMD-DOUG> And tell 'em SKUNKY sent you. ;)

<SKUNKY> on sundays at 8 in chat, tuesdays on 1405 at 10, and thursdays in chat
         at 10..

<THE.OUTLAW> Great! Thanks! :>

<SKUNKY> I staff the help desk most nights. Nite all!

<GEOS-TIM> Night Skunky

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Then we should get in good if we name drop.

<THE.OUTLAW> G'night Skunky! :>

<GEOS-TIM> :D

<[Doctor] D.TUOMI> Night, Skunky!  Thanks again!
